League of Legends 13.2 AD Carry Update

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30 Replies to “League of Legends 13.2 AD Carry Update”

I hope you see this, you’re doing great already and Im hopeful for future changes. You mentioned player satisfaction. I want you to seriously consider and take a look at tanks. As a sion player top lane, and many champs for that matter. It’s very painful to be made useless by so many counter match ups, let alone one adc with blade of the ruin king or irelia or Jax. Divine sunder with blade means most games tanks are just melted past the 25 min mark. As a tank player I would gladly give up more damage if it means I can actually tank for my team. As it stands now, you can barely tank a team for 5 seconds if they have even one fed person. I will agree tanks feel amazing early and mid game but the items to counter tanks are too much off or on in power. I hate being made obsolete by one or two items. One item does 8% plus divine does more in percent hp… usually more than one champ builds it. It’s really too much damage in the game. As a tank player I feel like I’m trolling my team by not going jax, Camille, fiora, or ksante. Picking sion or Mundo or maokai feels awful late game. I feel like the most satisfying answer would be let tanks do less damage but tank more. I’m tired of dying in less than 5 seconds to fed adcs or irelia or jax or Fiora or sett or mordekaiser. Too much anti tank Dmg in the game. Let me live at least 10 seconds In a teamfight late game. Also armor pen should be looked at too. Can’t tell you how many times I’ve been melted even with 300 plus armor by just one champion. I never feel like a tank or juggernaut late game. I think the ultimate case and point is how is it fair that a life steal champs can dps for 800 a second and live 10 plus seconds easily late game with all the healing they have but tanks just get melted with very few ways to recover hp or protect their hp from burst dmg. Tanks impact is already questionable, damage is the best cc after all. Why go Sion when you can go Camille and reliably delete a big damage source from their team. That seems like a better tank to me than an actual tank, just stop the damage at the source instead of soaking it.

"Although adc might not need a buff, people think it needs a buff. So were going to buff adc"

How could riot be in such turmoil when they keep making such incredibly wise decisions like this

It really bothers me this guys ego is so huge he says "*I* am buffing _____. " Rather than "we at riot are buffing ______." Really speaks to the team environment china cultivates. 🤣😂

Imo the game would be more appreciable in soloQ if items were restricted to the category of champion played… It would be so hard to impose to players but it seems to be a better solution to balance the game in general

Phreak, I have something else to say. I hope you will read me!

Senna is my favorite champ and I love to play her, I main her but…her design is weird.

1) She is a marksman that should not farm to maximize souls (and she easily gets bullied out of farming with the health nerf) so I cannot queue up ADC. If I queue ADC, the support will refuse to take the farm in most cases.

2) She is a bad support compared to champs like Sona, Karma, Lulu , Soraka, Nautilus, etc. so I queue up support knowning that my ADC would be better off with another support. Senna is squishier than an ADC, she will let the ADC tank, she cannot heal reliably (the cooldown is so long if you cannot hit anything), she cannot peal if she gets bullied. Let's be honest, she is a horrible support.

Having said that, I like marksmen, I don't really like to play support champions. If they ban Senna in champ select, what can I play? I queued support, after all, but I want to be the ADC. I don't want to play Ashe with Mandate or Jhin with Umbral glaive. I want to build like an ADC. Am I wrong in saying that she should have been designed to be an ADC? Should we not change souls drop rates?

Edit: I forgot to mention that it's a nightmare to farm with Senna pre-Noonquiver. She has no AD, no AS. It's almost impossible to get it right, even after putting 50 games trying it.

One small thing about Infinity Edge, I know a lot of champions besides ADCs build that item, but it's going to affect Yasuo and Yone mostly of all great deal so there might be some coletelar damage to it if you didn't plan on making those buff to those champions too.
My advice would be, this change, just make it affect Ranged Chamions since it's anyways range oriantated item.
Also then, it will affect Nilah but she doesn't build it anyways so early, even with those changes she will never build IE as first or second item I believe since her short range force her to go for sustain early so she will literally always go Shieldbow and then if not red hydra like now, some other sustain/damage item which in this cause could be the new Bloodthrister. Item is cheaper so I see it as a possible option now. And champions like Yone Yasuo Trynda and others who like to build IE, could stay as they are right now, which I believe you guys this is fine and balanced since you really didn't touch them in a while. Great changes anyways, I escaped to topline from ADC(went from 40% to 60% win rate), now I might even consider coming back to bot, i actually never felt the problem with role is that it's weak, but that it's so squishy and support dependent, and it does same damage as any other fed mage/assasin or bruiser. Also it just punishes you way much for every stun you collect, every debuff or really anything, while being top liner and playing champions like Aatrox, i eat up 4 stuns, heal up x2 to 100%HP and oneshot ADC that was attacking me for 10seconds being stunned ehh

Honestly besides infinity and navori those changes are bad. We are already living in ADC meta where if jungler isn't pathing bot every game he will end up losing. And also pretty much every game is decided by ADCs right now. After this update the game will be even in the worse and more boring state than it is now. Mid lane meta will shift into support champs like Karma, Zilean who are already strong mid lane picks just to peel the ADC as much as possible…

I think too much ability haste was pulled out of fighter items. Now they are just distinct from ADC items by the lack of crit, which feels kinda lukewarm. Eh.

I know you think these ie and navori changes aren't a big deal for adcs but boy you couldn't be more wrong about the consequences this will have on the game.
You proably have never considered non adcs building crit exept for champions like GP but what if you now pick up navori + a utility crit item/collector/shieldbow on a bruiser? What keeps an irelia a warwick a jayce from opting into crit?
Navori will break the game in it's current form I gurantee you folks.

If Bloodthirsters lifesteal is so high cause it is meant to.. basically be Warmogs for ADCs, why not give it an effect that reflects that? Like getting Bonus lifesteal vs neutrals and minions. This would allow for a world were Bloodthirster would cost 3k(Which is in all likelihood a good thing) and would prevent those situations where Bloodthirster can make some champs just feel like they are absolutely unkillable when ahead, despite playing with a Full damage build.

I am a big fan of the mana buffs. It generally buffs the lower elos more, I believe.. and using abilities is fun. It could be a bit problematic with the likes of Ashe and MF, who really like to just spam their mana out for little counterplay poke. But most ADCs really dont feel like they are intended to be gated by mana midgame – like Jhin, Xayah or Twitch. I think it would have been a smart move to increase the midgame CDs of some of those mana-gated abilities.

IE&Navori: This seems like a rather.. restrictive change. Currently, you have a number of choices on your second item. You usually have none on your first items – almost always, there is one mythic that performs significantly better. Second item spike is the most important part of the game.. And while I agree that ADCs could stand for a buff at two items, it shouldnt come at the cost of removing almost all itemization options. I also think that ADC itemization is so heavily tied to a big lynchpin item like IE is not exactly healthy for the game – compare it to mages, who have Rabadons as their big ticket damage item, but its also a luxury that isnt necessary for them to function. This allows for very diverse builds. ADCs are pretty much forced to build the equivalent of that luxury item. Its not like IE does anything.. interesting. Its just damage. No special synergies. Its not like DD, Gargoyles, Demonic, Zhonyas etc. which all have some exciting and gameplay defining effect.
Navori at least does something gameplay defining and altering. It feels like a core item on a few champs, an option for most others(if it wasnt exclusive for IE of course >.>).
Additionally.. As you even mentioned: ADC is not weak. ADC is actually quite strong. So why nothing but buffs? Their 3+ item power could really stand to be reduced, especially with the introduction of better defensive options. ADCs have so much damage at the later stages of the game, knocking that down a bit as a trade-off seems natural and logical.

BotRK: Unlike IE and Navori, this one is commonly built first, commonly built toplane and built by a lot of other champs. Granted, many of them are melee, but there is no reason to buff an already strong item. Why not buff Guinsoos instead, which is basically the same type of item as IE and Navori? Makes little sense like this. If on-hit ADCs aren't building Rageblade second, something's wrong with the item system.

The most exciting buffs to adcs in years. Such a nice quality of life buff with IE NQ even if it's only slightly power positive. Feels way better to have those second while starting to build up components to decision 3

Yeah Draven BT first item would start popping out in my games again. I actually missed that era where everyone doesn't have so many dashes and skill expression is the key to win the game.

I've been in design for half a decade now, and I still wish other AAA designers would do this kind of thing. IMO listing out design goals is one of the most important contextualizations for understanding changes and decisions.

I know this is a completely random question but has there ever been a consideration to turn items to adaptive force? Zhonya, GA and the QSS items(these need adjusting, I haven't seen anyone build them in years) for example would be more suited to the change. Although it might end up meaning every champ would build Zhonya, GA after their mythic every game.

legit dropping the game after this update…..cant play the game as a melee champ anymore with samira, nilah, yas, yone, aphelios, zeri, etc. just steamrolling every game now

Whenever there are these discussions around perception of fun/perception of power (recent years in League, mid mages and ADC more broadly), I always like this example:

Being a goalie in soccer above a certain level is mostly unfun. 90% of what you do is corraling the ball, making long passes, and staring at the grass. Is it a powerful role? Arguably, it's the most powerful role! Half of the game's scoring events involve a particular goalie personally. That other 10% has a lot of juice. Does it have a high winrate? Well, both teams have to have one, so it's a 50% winrate. Does that mean it has high impact? Sort of, skill differences there /can/ matter. Does it feel like having high agency? No, because if your team is losing, you're going to be attacked until you fail and there's not much to be done about that eventual result.

These are all different things, and so when I see "but pros still play mages" "look at the winrate of mage champions it's 50%" "ADC can't be that bad you still play marksmen" I get a little frustrated, because that's just… not the same thing we talk about as designers. "ADC is bad" can mean "well just don't play them then, bot mage meta woo" or it can mean "the current design state is that the correct thing to do isn't very fun."

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