Dragon & Baron Be Removed From LOL?

The Elemental Drakes, Rift Herald, Baron Nashor and Elder Dragon have long been a focal point of a game’s progression in League of . Over the years they’ve become more and more prioritized due to their game altering consequences for better or worse. Today I wanted to discuss why I believe have become too influential that it almost forces every game into a set pace that can alienate many playstyles or champions.

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44 Replies to “Dragon & Baron Be Removed From LOL?”

my only problem with drakes are that the stats are permanent.
in dota roshans aegis is only able to be wielded by 1 person and is still not permanent even if now used.
is smite the furries , pyromancer and fire giant are temporary.

My issue is that you get flamed as the jungler for missing objectives but then no lanes have priority for you to get them, and when you focus ganking to get the lanes priority everyone pushes the wave out then backs and doesn't bother helping anyway -.-

i feel like part of the problem is just how fast objectives are killed most of them time the other team unless they know their killing the objective wont react to it fast enough because objective use to be risky for how long they toke to kill giving the other team a good enough chance

As others have already said, one of the shittiest feelings regarding objectives is when your team runs head-first into it, thinking they NEED every single one (only jungle runs in alone and misses smite) or are just unprepared to fight for it (getting picked off, no vision, carries behind) As the support I always put vision around it beforehand and chill in a bush while I wait for somebody to come, if they don’t I just let it go. I hope the objective vote helps with that, but I don’t think people will listen to the vote anyway.

My #1 problem is Herald. I'd say remove herald, and have it so dragon has a random chance to swap sides each spawn, or rework herald. An idea for a rework: maybe make it an objective that benifets the support, it gives them a reason to go top, and possibly helps with, say, gold income so they can get items around the same rate as everyone else, or have it give stats amp. Maybe the support item at the begining would determine what those stats are, like spelltheif gives heal/sheild amp, relic sheld gives HP/AP/AR&MR. I feel like supports (not just in league but in other games) should be more than heal/cc bots and have more agency/impact, giving them their own objective would be a massive part of that, it puts a rather neglected/overlooked role into the primary flow of gameplay. There's alot of "what can the support do for the team" not alot of "what can the team to for the support"

As to why I hate herald: Hate how if you're winning lane, winning only by plates, or tied, herald just invalidates all of that. It's even worse when you're losing because it makes it so you just can't come back, and you're stuck in lane for even longer while your opponent gets to have impact all over the map. This is especially evident to toplane, where getting out of lane is basically the main goal, and now you're either stuck farming after having the lead, or you're playing roblox farming simulator for 20 minutes when you're losing.

If any of my points were brought up in the video, I'll be honest, I just saw the title and it's something I've been talking with friends about as of late, and wanted to put my thoughts down.

My biggest issue with neutral objectives is only the last hits matter. No matter what you say about how good you are with Smite, the last hit in a big fight is usually random and absolutely unfair. Especially with objective bounties, this has become even more frustrating.
I would like this mechanic to be changed. Maybe the stealing team only getting gold etc but not the buff? Or maybe have a "capture" mechanic that when the dragon/baron dies, last team to remain alive in the pit gets the buffs?

I prefer way much Herald than elemental drakes, they are really boring, whereas Herald is more interesting, and a clear help : Towers = Win
I like the soul drake, or later the Elder Drake to finish the game, but elemental drakes are way too frequent and boring

Now about your stance : Yes imo now the game has only one way of being won, snowball. Turtle ans Splitpush are rendered useless, eventhough Riot does some small efforts with 1 item for split push and bounties for turtle, it is really negligeable compared to the whole game being orientated around snowball : Snowball drakes, Snwoball Herald, Snowball plates, and the classics Snowball items and Snowball levels

I will take game ending objectives any day over what we had before where games could go for 60 min+ those were horrible days where like you could afk farm. It is also just way more interesting to watch since the games are not dragged on and conflict is encouraged. Now adays if a game is more than 35 min thats considered long which imo is good

The jungle needs more objectives. A roaming entity that stops over staying and eliminates those bad jungle Lulus that think they’re good, making the fog of war much direct towards invade!

Riot pushes player agency (excluding marksmans) thus these major team oriented objectives become difficult to work together towards when these groups of random players finally start working together 20m after joining a game.

Not only does it require a team effort to get hit also further team play to effectively utilize. You cant expect conditioned players to all of a sudden start teamplay.

The game needs to be team oriented or remove team based objectives. As it stands now team based objectives break the flow of the game for the worst. Further diminished with the kind of toxic community we have.

Off topic but if you're still doing Why No One Plays, I'd love to see one on Xin Zhao. He was the champ I have the most mastery with and who got me into jungling. Yet despie his mini rework in early season 11, his pickrate hasn't become much better. Plus, in your Why No One Plays Trundle, you stated that you would do one on him so I think it would be pretty interesting to see.

Yesterday just won a ranked game 4v5 (our support morgana went afk because she thought it was unwinnable) enemy doing elder while we focusing on tower and then recall after getting their inhib. We def and then buff worn out, hesit the baron and then we won! Without that buff it will not be possible and the winning team will always leading ahead and ahead

I'd say is a very simplistic way of putting it. Yes, objectives have become the center of the game. However, they to get to them is not always how you mentioned it. Split push, good ults, hyper carries all of that can be used. Let's say for example the Sona twitch situation you mentioned against Pyke Draven. Aoe dmg and how you use it will win you the tf.

Funny you described my game this morning. Farmed well, didn't die but then my lane roamed, I ping danger because I was walking back to lane but the 3v3 was already lost and my base just got annihilated by Rift Herald. It was still fun but felt like a cheap win for them.

When it comes to objectives I am kinnda not liking herald. You have a toplaner that is even with the enemy top. He gets ganked just once, dies, herald is summoned and your top tower is down and you can no longer do anything. I'm an adc main but that happening to a toplaner is just not cool, just cuz he got ganked once

I love how winrate for souls has 0 relation to soul power with the actual true order being something like hextech mountain infernal ocean cloud(ocean and infernal are highly comp dependent, but id argue infernal is more universal)

WW JG main with almost 1million mastery, Warwick is great and can solo almost every objective given that lanners keep proper lane pressure. I'll even solo first dragon at lvl 4 if I can..I hate getting JG diff when my team has never given me any support tho I will be fighting both top lanners while my teammates are still in their lane uping their cs and just ignoring what's going on..From personal experience it's important to take every dragon..the only one you mite not take is the first.

I think the thing you’re missing here is that neutral objectives make players play the game. They aren’t just there to “streamline” the experience. Because it’s true, afk power farmers in every lane shouldn’t be allowed to win as often as proactive early teamplay. Neutral objectives is what balances is out.

If you’re just saying that neutral objectives hold too much power, then that’s fine. Something like Elder guaranteeing a win in the next late game teamfight is ridiculous. Or back when Baron literally just signaled the end of the game at 22 minutes, yeah, that’s ridiculous. Unga-bunga goon squading all over the map shouldn’t win you games as often as methodical scaling play just like how afk farming shouldn’t win as often as proactive early play.

The point about how objectives “narrow down the ways you can play” is actually just “they don’t let players get away with playing stupid in a rank where playing well matters.” I don’t see how that’s a bad thing.

Agree. There is not enough support for variety of win con in lol. It is who has best team fight. Gold should be the only avenue for combat stats and objectives should be centered around other win conditions. Like increasing dmg to towers or popping plates. It seems like split pushing is the only other win con ppl even know about.

I have a lot to say on this topic, I broadly agree with your criticism of modern league's neutral objectives (they are really impactful and that tends almost force teams to fight over them). What I find interesting is that you neglected to mention towers in talking about objectives. Because they are most important objectives in the sense that they are a requirement to destroy in order to win (any 3 from 1 lane plus the inhibitor, plus 2 nexus towers). Towers used to be a lot harder to take later on in the game, now, we have tower plates that make outer towers artificially hard to take prior to 14 minutes into the game (but reward you in gold for beating on them enough), after that the other towers are really made of paper and not even that dangerous to anyone that's actually invested in tank stats (ofc, without minions the tower suddenly because nearly invulnerable thanks to backdoor protection, but if not for that, many juggernauts could literally 1v1 towers at 20 minutes). One of the things that would improve the pacing of the game (and extend average game times) would be inner and inhibitor towers being harder to take (ditto nexus towers). This would be a nice counterweight to the current high value neutral objectives (it would give a team in an advantaged position but that doesn't scale well something to do besides immediately trying to end to address their lacking late game), and games that on a more even footing could still have neutrals playing a important role. Another consequence of making towers harder to take is that split pushing would become more effective (this is because the risk of your team being outmatched defending 4v5 isn't going to cost as much as quickly), they could even tune minion damage to towers up to reward effective wave manipulation (and push defending teams who rotate poorly). Additionally, the current pushing power of super minions is honestly crazy high and making losing even 1 inhibitor a major setback in your ability to project any presence out on the map. This could be curtailed (in favor of making them very resistant to tower damage, and thus making it important for a team that is dealing with 1 or more downed inhibitors have to not ignore a super minion wave that's pushing in, but also make it easier to at least temporarily relieve that pressure so that they can get out of the map and have a window to contest something of importance.

I also hate the fact that the jungler basically has the whole control over the objectives. If your jungler is gapped pretty hard it becomes almost impossible to ever get an early advantageor even one late in the game. This is not the case for any other role (at least to this extend) and I feel like having this crazy high responsibility is one of the reasons the jungle's so hated and unpopular.

l played more then 1k games this season, and l saw less then 10 elder drakes, so ehhh your point does not really apply, and its diamond even not silver or gold.

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